Money Gramm to UK... is this a scam?

Edited

MANY scammers will ask you to transfer money to US or UK. You will find examples of this all over this forum.

The person receiving the money is known as a mule. He or she will forward the money to the scammer.

In some cases, he/she is an accomplice to the scammers, who receives and forwards the money in exchange for a fee or a percentage of the money. He or she may be using a fake (or copied) name and even have fake identification in that name. Several scammers have been arrested in UK who were doing this, but many more are still out there.

More often, the person receiving the money is another victim. He or she may be a romance victim who believes that he/she is helping their love to collect a legitimate debt, or may be the victim of a job scam, in which a scammer has posted a fake position as a perosnal assistant, payroll specialist, or finance manager (these are just a few examples of job titles used.) The victim believes that he/she is a legitimate employee, who is receiving and forwarding money as part of his job.

If this is connected to the original scenario you described, there is absolutely no doubt it is 100% scam.

(Dotti beat me to it)

Scammers know that the word 'Nigeria' is synonymous fraud and in my whole career in international banking I never came a cross a deal or document mentioning the word 'Nigeria' that wasn't either a forgery or fraud. I'm not being anti-Nigeria that's just how it was/is. Scammers know this and will often try to avoid mentioning Nigeria in various ways.

The first thing for you to bear in mind is that if you give a person the code number and security phrase anyone knowing that information can pick up the money anywhere in the world without providing ID. As you'll see in my signature line Moneygram and Western Union are only for making payments to people you know. People in the UK have bank accounts - even scammers, so this method of payment in itself is highly suspicious.

Scammers also have contacts in the UK and even the USA who will gladly handle stolen money for them for a fee, but they prefer not to use their bank accounts as it will lead back to them.

If you make this payment even with a bank account you can't be certain it isn't going to a scammer and I and many other people on this forum deal with stolen money going through UK bank accounts, but if you make a payment to a Western country using a cash payment method, I'd be fairly sure you're paying a scammer.

It isn't the method of payment that means you're dealing with a scammer but the reason payment is being made, and I believe that you've already established it's a scam. Scammers are very inventive and well-organised and they'll go to great efforts to dispose of stolen money. Once the money is gone it can never be recovered.

If someone in the UK is expecting to receive money and won't tell you his bank details that alone is suspicious because you can't exist in the UK without a bank account. The beneficiary wished to remain anonymous.

Thanks for great information both of you. As I feared, if my friend didn't success she'll try again

I guess the scenario last time with Byron isn't so effective as the scammer find a new way to avoid suspicion

^^ You will find that in some cases victims will not believe friends or others. The scammer has control of their mental state.

Warnings and directing her here did not help. I do not know what will besides the lost of money. She will learn either by going broke or realizing it is a scam.

As I have repeatedly told you. Direct her here. You keep asking should I do this. I said several times, direct her here. You speak her language better than most of us. She can read English better than spoken.

I and the other Warner can not help unless you follow our directions.

Do what you were asked to do. Follow instructions from eater and here.

I guess the scenario last time with Byron isn't so effective as the scammer find a new way to avoid suspicion

I said this days ago.

What action should I take now? Try to lead her to scamwarners?

Nope, not correct again. Scammers has always used WU/MG. This time the Bank Account is not a good option. The scenario you asked me to do for you did not work because you refuse to follow directions. Best wishes.

I guess the scenario last time with Byron isn't so effective as the scammer find a new way to avoid suspicion

^^^ I believe you know more than what you are saying. I also believe you are not posting details.

Something does not sit right with me.

^^^ I believe you know more than what you are saying. I also believe you are not posting details.

Something does not sit right with me.

I've recapped everything happened from sunday until now on Yahoo. If you still have questions please feel free to send me messages on Yahoo. I've also explain the reason why I cant lead her here.

A new twist today.. She said if i can't send the money until tomorrow then she'll send it on Friday since she'll be travel as well.

What delay tactics can I use or just let her do what she wants?

Seems to me that you really should direct her to this site, if you are not going to follow the advice that you have been given by the very experienced scam warners.

You should not be sending any money what so ever, though your 1st post has been edited so perhaps I am missing info, but as I say heed the advice you have been given.

[AlanJones]

've also explain the reason why I cant lead her here.

If you truely want to help her then there is no valid reason not to send her here - you seem to be doing everything that you can to avoid really helping her, while wasting everyone's time and trying to play games with her - do you have some ulteria motive for not wanting her to get proper help?

[AlanJones]

The original post for completeness

Hi, it's me again.

My friend ask me to send money to her friend in UK, this time with real name, address and telephone number in London.

Everything looks fine and dandy, though just to be sure I'll ask for your opinion.

- She asked me to use MoneyGram instead of Paypal or wire transfer
- Last time she asked me to transfer to Nigeria and people here point out that it was a scam
I haven't heard any case where scammer ask you to transfer money to UK or US. Usually it's somebody in UK want to transfer money to Nigeria. Maybe I'm just too paranoid.

Can somebody please help me? I just want to be 100% sure.

Thanks again

've also explain the reason why I cant lead her here.

If you truely want to help her then there is no valid reason not to send her here - you seem to be doing everything that you can to avoid really helping her, while wasting everyone's time and trying to play games with her - do you have some ulteria motive for not wanting her to get proper help?

I've already showed her many news about 419 victim in my country and Smith Jones has already send her a long email details the romance scam that Smith Jones was a victim a year ago and warn her but it has no effect. I believe the reason is she really owned her boyfriend money, and her boyfriend asked her to transfer the money to this Nigeria guy to clear her debt to him. That's why to her it's NOT a scam and everything I tried doesn't have any effect. I think if Smith Jones didn't success then nothing will. Not to mention as a single mom and don't know a thing about tech, it's impossible for her to glide through any forum and understand a thing about it if there's nobody take her hand and show her how.

So other than try to not let the money fall in the hand of the scammer, what can I do? Btw I'm 2000km away on business trip without any mean of phonecall or contact other than facebook and email

Chances are she does NOT owe him any money. If the scammer did send her any money (and it is still very likely she is lying) then most likely it was stolen from an innocent person's account. If that's the case, she could find herself in big trouble later.

Scammers want to steal your money, not share theirs--they won't send money to victim unless they are absolutely certain they are going to profit from it--and with romance victims, most scammers aren't going to take that chance.

The sad reality is that the scammer is telling her what she really wants to hear. He is giving her a fairytale story with a promise of a happy ending. You said she is a single mom--the scammer is undoubtedly also promising her that he will be a new and wonderful father to her children.

On the other hand, you are telling her things she does not want to hear--that the happy ending is not real, and that there is no handsome prince in love with her.

He is also probably telling her that you are saying those things because you are jealous and don't want her to be happy, and that she should not listen to you.

She is not ready to let go of that fairy tale and unfortunately there is no way for you or anyone else to make her do it. The most you can do right now is refuse to he him hurt her and her children (because they too will be hurt when he steals her money.) Try to remain friends if you can, and if you have reason to believe her children are at risk (for example, if she cannot feed her children because she has sent all her money to the scammer) as hard as it is, be ready to report the situation to the appropriate authorities so they can be protected.

Tell her that you will be there to support her, without judgment, when she is ready, and that you are always ready to help her find the truth, but you are not going to be a part of something that you know is wrong. And it is wrong, and puts you at risk.

Eventually, she is going to discover that those promises just never seem to come true. There will be no visa and no wedding. The only thing you can hope for is that she realizes it sooner rather than later.

^ Thanks for helping.

Yes, if it's a simple case like that then Smith John can help me fine.

The thing here is I tried to ask different questions from different points of view and it seems she REALLY did take money from her boyfriend in the UK. HOW the money is given to her is something I don't know yet.

That's why it's not clear if her boyfriend is a scammer, or he is also a victim. If he is a scammer, then he couldn't have go meet her 3 times in 2 years (this I can't confirm, only hear from her). If he is a victim, then he may be tricked into sending money to NIgeria, but why ask for MoneyGram?

This is the point I'm confused and don't know which action to take. Though what Bryon did was partial successful: no money send to stranger anymore, she also doubts her boyfriend now and only send money directly to him. I'm only confuse about the MoneyGram part so I have to check for sure,

I just hate 419 scammer so I try my best to avoid giving money to them. If the lads success one time, they'll have all the more motivation to score for other victims.

[AlanJones]

Just because SJ couldn't persuade her is no reason for you to block her from the chance of discovering the scam for herself - you seem to have appointed yourself as the one to make decisions for her and not want give her the chance to think for herself.

I don't know the details of SJ's scammer, but perhaps the scenario was just so different from what your friend has experienced that she couldn't make a connection. There are thousands of threads in the Romance forum with different variations of scam - one of those might strike a chord with her and make her ask questions.

On another tack, in either your original post here or the one at Eater, you said that she was ready to quit her job and move to the UK to be married to him and that is what the money was for. Lets assume that he is legitimate (which I don't believe for one second he is) - she doesn't stand a hope in hell of getting a visa to the UK for anything more than a short visit.

1. Their whole relationship will be viewed as a sham and an excuse to get an illegal immigrant in to the UK - they have probably never met (a couple of claimed short visits in 2 years will be looked upon with suspicion) and their whole relationship is being conducted over the Internet.

2. He appears to have no funds as she is having to send him money, so would he be able to meet the financial requirements for her to get a visa?

Just because SJ couldn't persuade her is no reason for you to block her from the chance of discovering the scam for herself - you seem to have appointed yourself as the one to make decisions for her and not want give her the chance to think for herself.

I don't know the details of SJ's scammer, but perhaps the scenario was just so different from what your friend has experienced that she couldn't make a connection. There are thousands of threads in the Romance forum with different variations of scam - one of those might strike a chord with her and make her ask questions.

On another tack, in either your original post here or the one at Eater, you said that she was ready to quit her job and move to the UK to be married to him and that is what the money was for. Lets assume that he is legitimate (which I don't believe for one second he is) - she doesn't stand a hope in hell of getting a visa to the UK for anything more than a short visit.

1. Their whole relationship will be viewed as a sham and an excuse to get an illegal immigrant in to the UK - they have probably never met (a couple of claimed short visits in 2 years will be looked upon with suspicion) and their whole relationship is being conducted over the Internet.

2. He appears to have no funds as she is having to send him money, so would he be able to meet the financial requirements for her to get a visa?

My point is, I've already lead her to 419 scam in local language for her to read but it has no effect. If she doesn't trust the local stories, plus her native language is not english and she's not familiar with computer in general do you think she'll have enough patients to browse through thousands of topic and read everything? I've met many people like that in my life to know would they do if I lead her here. Even my wife who studied computer science has a hard time following my simple instruction to download video from youtube because she doesn't want to pay attention. The chance of somebody who only use computer to read the news actually go through thousand of pages in some random forum just because she was told to do is extremely low. On the other hand, concrete action like what me and Bryon did has much better effects. She won't send money to anybody who she hasn't met before, because now she know it could endanger herself. So I'm trying to make her understand with simple, easy-to-the-point explanation. (FYI last time we pretend that I was questioned by the police for attempt to transfer money to a fraudster)

For points 1 and 2 you mention she hasn't shared her story with me. Those info are the one I gather through little chit chat so I can't comment on anything.