DAD GmbH

[TerranceBoyce]

A couple of links related to the subject that posters might like to take a look at.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/ ... 5644en.pdf

and a nicer version of the same thing - petition number 60

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... anguage=EN

another link

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... ERV:l32010

It might also help to know the countries where those receiving these letters are based in case there is any local law or bodies who can provide assistance

Belgium

http://economie.fgov.be/en/entreprises/ ... beKTUtSzwI

MEP Simon Busuttil is the European Parliament rapporteur on the Misleading Directory Companies' report.

http://arc.eppgroup.eu/press/showpr.asp ... ntentlg=en

EU Directive 2006/114/EC - Misleading and comparative advertising

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... ERV:l32010

UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2R1N9DzRBc

Video by UK Euro MEP Richard Corbett

Tell me where you're based and I'll look for links. Any links I find are publicly available to anyone searching on the internet. I am not giving advice and I am not legally qualified to do so, nor am I passing comment on the links.

[TerranceBoyce]

I'll include country and EU specific rulings and judgements I discover on the thread and add them to my post above in due course.

Meanwhile this is an interesting item from The German Association for Protection against Unfair Competition (Deutscher Schutzverband gegen Wirtschaftskriminalität e.V. - DSW) is the statutory authority in Germany in charge of applying the national and European legislation on unfair commercial practices.

http://www.easa-alliance.org/binarydata ... _alert.pdf

Though, on the face of it, their decision appears disappointing, actually it isn't.

It states

….. companies complaining about DAD from outside Germany, are not within their remit because the legal reach of court decisions is restricted by the principle of territory. This means that a court decision would only be able to prohibit the use of the form in Germany, but not abroad: in such cases international private law applies.

I do believe, though I do not know with certainty, that the contracts include applicable law and legal jurisdiction clause limiting any legal proceedings to German courts.

The point being that if you haven't paid and do not intend to make payment the onus is on DAD GmbH to initiate legal proceedings which must go through the German courts before any recovery proceedings can be initiated in your own country.

The fact that a German statutory body has issued an alert in these terms

The EASA Ad Alerts are aimed at practitioners, relevant government and consumer organisations concerned with cross-border advertisements that demonstrate sharp and extremely misleading practices. They provide updates on companies endorsing such practices and provide advice to consumers and companies who have been misled.

… makes it far from a 'slam dunk' that the contract would be upheld in a German Court, though I must point out that I have no legal training and this doesn't represent legal advice. I am merely pointing out links to information publicly available on the internet published by statutory bodies, EU MEP's and other official and government bodies.

[TerranceBoyce]

An interesting article

http://www.recht-steuern-hamburg.de/dad ... -2015.html

and

http://www.damm-legal.de/lg-hamburg-die ... ist-betrug

Certainly as regards UK persons/companies, they would be well advised to follow the advice given by the UK Euro MP in his video, the link to which has already been posted.

[huijattu]

Happened to me too. Just thought it was a similar inquiry from EU I had got a few years ago and signed it and now have an invoice of 677e on my desk. Worst possible time to get such a letter as was having my summer holiday, only popped back to my flat to pick up the mail, did not read it properly and here I am. I sent them an email saying that I have no intention of paying and that I am retired and my company does not have any business. Probably will not help at all but hope to contact those other firms in Finland who have the same problem. Feel like a complete fool as I am usually very suspicious about such mails…

[TerranceBoyce]

Welcome to Sacamwarners huijattu.

The thing to keep in mind is the German court ruling

LG Hamburg, judgment of 14.01.2011, Az. 309 S 66/10
§§ 823 2 BGB. 263 of the Criminal Code

mentioned here

http://www.damm-legal.de/lg-hamburg-die ... ist-betrug

There is an English translation here

https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... rev=search

By the terms of the invoice any dispute must be dealt with by the German court and it seems unlikely that the invoice could be enforced there but, even if they did win, unless you do business in Germany, that would achieve nothing. They would then have to apply to a court in your country and, then you would be in a much better position to fight it, and it would be very expensive for them to go that far.

It's very helpful for UK companies that there is a video from a UK Euro MP supporting them in refusing to pay these bills, and companies in Finland should contact their Euro MP's for similar support. Once that exists it will make it less likely that companies in your country will be targeted.

[SweetgirL]

Hi, I think I'm being scam.. Help please. I had a few personal problems so I didn't think too much about it. But I was Google in, and I found you.

A gave my phone number and a courier address.

I don't know what to do now. I'm freaking out

[costi244]

Hi.
Don't do nothing about DAD GmbH. They will finally stop sending letters. Do not talk to the lawyer, it is a waste of time. Do not reply to any email or letter. They're just a bunch of thieves who try to cheat companies.They have absolutely no grounds to sue you.
Good luck.

[Mary Dee]

Good evening,

I received an invoice from european business number EBN with a bill of 677 euro with my company registered under some directory I have never heard of!! The thing is I signed a letter from the above EBN also trading as DAD GMBH about a month ago which I thought I was simply updating my company details for EU company law or something official not some advertising service that was costing 677 euro. The worry crept in when I typed in EBN and the word "Scam" came up on google search. I will not pay this pack of frausters and my advice to anyone is to not exchange bank details and ignore calls and emails demanding payment, The MD is Daniela Kunst and surprise surprise when I tried to email this woman , the email would not send.(bogus and fake company not contactable) However I did not ring them nor wish to. My accountant advise me to ignore them in future as he had an experience with one other client.

they are low life scum and I hope no one else falls into their trap

[TerranceBoyce]

Welcome to Scamwarners Mary Dee.

I can understand why they do it, but by making all disputes subject to German law and the jurisdiction of German courts they don't make matters easy for themselves. The point being that the judgement of a German Court cannot be enforced in the UK. I won't go any further or I might end up unintentionally helping them.

They don't try this on large companies for obvious reasons. If you're based in the UK then you're pretty 'bullet proof' because you have a UK MEP who has produced a video which is very useful and you could always refer to it. I have given a link in an earlier post and it's reassuring to listen to it.

The easiest thing might be to send them a link to it.

[morphun]

I just had their invoice for £790 a year for three years -Ii signed this last year thinking I was updating some required European data file - has any one paid ye ?t - what happens if you do not pay ?

any ideas welcome

[HillBilly]

please read the entire thread and the links Terrance Boyce provided, morphun. Welcome to scamwarners.

[TerranceBoyce]

Welcome to Scamwarners morphun.

If you let me know the country where you are based I'll try to research specific information for you. Generally speaking, if there are examples of government consumer organisations, legal bodies or legal judgements in your country evidencing that such claims for money have failed, then it is much easier to give you support and comfort. I have the time to do it and it's in my nature.

We do not exist to give legal advice and I'm not qualified to do it but I can perform research for you.

Update

i just spotted your other post Morphun and I suspect that you are located in the UK and it appears that it has recently been doing the rounds in the UK.

That's easy - just click the link to the video clip from a British Euro MP I posted earlier in the thread and follow his advice.

Looking at your other post I note that you mention that the 'company' was named - UK Data Control (based in Hamburg)

A simple Google search leads to this website - http://www.data-control.net/index.php

Managing Director with power to represent the company:
Daniela Kunst

Commercial Register Court: Hamburg Local Court
Register No.: Commercial Register, Companies' Section, Record No. 88115

DAD Deutscher Adressdienst GmbH

Alter Wall 65
20457 Hamburg
Germany

P.O. Box 11 35 58
20435 Hamburg
Germany

Phone: 0049 40 7511990
Fax: 0049 40 75119911

[email protected]

I've mentioned the details as the two organisations are obviously associated.

The point being that there is no record that I can find of this organisation ever taking legal steps to recover the money they are claiming from companies in the UK and, I suspect that if ever they did, it would fail. It is therefore not in their interests to go to court.

I'll repeat below the most significant links.

Video by UK Euro MEP Richard Corbett

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2R1N9DzRBc

German court ruling

LG Hamburg, judgment of 14.01.2011, Az. 309 S 66/10
§§ 823 2 BGB. 263 of the Criminal Code

mentioned here

http://www.damm-legal.de/lg-hamburg-die ... ist-betrug

There is an English translation here

https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... rev=search

Another court ruling English translation

https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... rev=search

Another reported ruling

http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2014/05 ... ta/991352/

English translation

https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... rev=search

A question posed in the European Parliament

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... anguage=FR

The reply

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... anguage=FR

Be aware that this organisation operates using several different names and web sites and I'll list some more that they use as I discover them.

[morphun]

Yes I am in UK and thanks for the links and comments.
Does any one know any one yet where DAD Gmb have given up chasing them on this or similar rip off
Has anyone been taken to court yet in Germany?
Has anyone had action in the UK ?

Lets all keep eyes on this and share info and make life hard for these scammers.

Anyone want to share the costs of aggressive rather then defensive action would not say what here in case they are members

I will update as we go along

[TerranceBoyce]

The point is morphun that anyone can chase you for a debt whether real or completely fictitious but, if it is not enforceable in the UK courts, it's a waste of their time, effort and money.

There is a paradox in that even if the claimed creditor gets a decision in a German court, it doesn't give him any powers to enforce it in the UK. Having said that it appears unlikely they would win such a case considering the Hamburg decision, and why would they waste their time and money seeking a court decision that has no benefit to them in the UK ?

For most small UK companies, unless they do business in Germany, a decision against them in a German court is irrelevant. Of course the fact that it has to be handled by a German court is meant to be a deterrent due to to cost, but actually the reverse is true, because would any company based outside Germany care ? In that case the cost deterrent is theirs.

There is such a thing as an EU equivalent of the Small Claims Court (whose rulings can be enforced in UK courts) but, though it's easy to use, I don't see them using it as one decision against them is likely to set a Europe-wide precedent that may finally put an end to this. The other disadvantage to them is that it is designed to be easy and simple to use. The threat of the cost and complexity of using German courts is intended to scare you off. There is the oddity that even if they used the EU Small Claims Court they could suffer from the clause giving German courts sole legal jurisdiction. This clause that, at first, appears disturbing is actually something of a flaw.

I do believe that in some other countries they have either appointed local debt collection agencies or acted as one themselves, but without an enforceable legal decision in the UK, again it is a waste of their time and money. A DCA has no powers and they have to be careful to observe UK regulations or they can get into serious trouble.

No UK company has any need to be concerned about these invoices.

[FMS]

Hi every one,

We had the same problem. We are a small company based in Spain and we work in some EU countries. We thought was a confirming of our company data for an EU-Number.

Did somebody found any solution?

We are decided to ignore all this letters we are monthly receiving.

Best Regards